Phew!!! We finally get to the end of our BBSBU series. I’ll definitely have more solar posts in the future as we do additional testing & exploration of our new system, but this is going to be it, at least for this time around. For our summary post we’re just going to cover a few, key items.
How’s The System Working?
So, the burning question that I’m sure everyone wants to know is how is our BBSBU system working? Was it everything we expected it to be? Or did it disappoint? Are we awash in an overflow of luxurious power? Or whining for more?
We’ve been living off our system for around a week now and we’ve been testing it pretty darn hard. We’ve had sunny days and we’ve had 3 consecutive cloudy days and sweet Solar Gods I can honestly say this baby frikkin’ rocks!!
Pumping! Number on the left is what is coming into our solar chargers. On the right is the output we’re pumping into our battteries (the boost is thanks to MPPT)On the battery usage side we’ve done multiple loads of laundry, we’ve run hours of air conditioning** and (while we were with Marv), we even drew our batteries down to the 20% cut-off (which took FOREVER mind you) to make sure everything disconnected and shut-off like it was supposed to (it did!).
On the solar production side we hit ~94 Amps of generation a few days ago (mid-morning, with our panels FLAT!!!) which is pretty darn amazing. We’ve not even come CLOSE to being able to consume the abundance of energy this system can pump out, and in summer our output will probably ramp up a tad more.
We haven’t (yet) installed an external plug so that our power-starved boondocking friends can link up to our infinite supply, but we’re thinking about it 🙂
**We’ll be talking more about the whole air conditioning subject in later blog posts, but for those who are dying to know NOW, I’ll throw you some preliminary numbers. Our aircon sucks anywhere from 100-150 amps from our batteries, depending on how hot the ambient air is (and which “mode”, high or low it’s in). We’ve been able to produce ~94 amps so far from our solar panels, with NO tilting in early March. We don’t know if we’ll break 100 amps production in summer and we don’t (yet) know how long we can sustain that kind of production, but that’s where we currently stand. So, feel free to do the math…
Let’s See The Video!!!
I did mention a video tour, didn’t I? Well {{gulp}} here it is. Keep in mind this is our very FIRST ever video and we are complete amateurs, so don’t expect anything polished or expertly produced. We may be a tad dorky and we probably made mistakes, but hopefully you’ll enjoy it anyway 🙂
I had someone ask me this in the comments of my first BBSBU post and thought it was an interesting question, so I decided to add this to our summary. You never want to over-load your RV and staying within carrying limits is important. We have plenty of headroom in the “beast” so we weren’t too worried, but turns out we probably lost a bit from this entire installation thanks to the huge weight savings we got going from Lead Acid to Lithium, plus a few extra things that we ditched along the way.
Here are our specific numbers:
These babies weighed 264lbsOur “new” external battery compartment. Only our chassis (engine) batteries left now.
Batteries -> The old set of 440 AH Lead Acid that we had in our external bay weighed 264lbs. Our new 600AH of Lithium weighs 165lbs (55lbs for each 200AH pack). Weight savings = -99 lbs
Battery Compartment –> Since we got rid of our Lead Acid we didn’t need our huge, heavy sliding metal battery tray anymore, so Marv took it out for us. Weight savings = -50lbs
Solar Panels -> We had 6 panels on our roof already. We added 9 of the GS100 at 14.5lbs each. Weight gain = +130.5 lbs
Solar Chargers -> Our old Morningstar MPPT-45 weighed ~10 lbs. Our 4 new Blue Sky weigh ~22 lbs combined. Weight gain = +12 lbs
Satellite Dish -> We finally got rid of the old, useless DirectTV satellite dish (TracVision R5SL) that we had at the front of the RV roof. Weight savings = -33 lbs
TOTAL = -39.5 lbs (savings)
That’s a rough estimate and doesn’t include all the smaller pieces/extra shelving/wiring etc. (nor the incalculable savings we got from ditching my underwear drawer LOL) so it’ll probably ended up being a wash all in all. We’ll get our rig re-weighed at some point just to double-check, but that’s where we currently stand.
Is Your System Noisy?
This is another question that came up in the comments and it’s an important consideration for anyone who decides to bring their whole system (batteries/charger/inverter) into the bedroom like we did. Batteries and chargers make no noise at all (seriously, none), but the inverter was a concern and since I’m pretty sensitive to noise, I wasn’t sure how it would all work out. After a week of hard testing, I’m happy to say I really don’t think this will be a problem:
The inverter only makes noise under heavy loadsNO noise under normal use -> under normal day-to-day use (computers, TV etc.) our inverter makes no noticeable noise. Seriously can’t hear it at all, even in the bedroom.
SOME noise under heavy use -> under heavy use (e.g. air conditioning) the cooling fans kick on and they can get annoying -> fan level 1 is fine, but levels 2 & 3 are definitely noisy, and I wouldn’t want to be in the bedroom with them on. However I can’t think of many scenarios where this will be a problem. With the air running, fan noise is pretty much washed out by the racket of the air conditioner (so I basically consider this a wash) and I can’t imagine many (any?) other cases when we’ll be using the inverter under heavy loads at night (while we’re in the bedroom)?
So, overall not a problem that I can foresee at this time. Unless we’re running something really heavy I don’t notice anything, and I haven’t heard a pip or a squeak from the inverter at night (which is all I care about for sleeping, anyway). We’ll keep an eye on this, but for now it’s not an issue.
Other RV Lithium Installations:
To round-out my post series I wanted to link to some of the other Lithium installations out there. Lithium has a come a long way in the past 5-8 years. Lots of boaters use them, but it’s still fairly early days in the RV industry and it’s fun to see how other people have implemented their set-ups. So, here’s a few that I know about (If I’ve missed yours and you’ve written about it, please post in the comments and I’ll add you onto this list):
Technomadia – Google “Lithium in RVs” and these guys are probably the very first hit you’ll get. Our buddies Chris & Cherie were one of the very earliest RV adopters of a Lithium system (over 4 years ago!), and they’ve got a TON of detailed posts about it on their blog. A wealth of info for anyone interested in going this route. Click HERE.
Airstream Forum – Gary installed Lithium in his Airstream last year (also with Marv) and posted about it in detail on the Airstream forums HERE.
Ardent Camper – These guys installed a system in their Fleetwood Southwind 32V just two months ago. Click HERE.
Newell Forum – Forrest installed Lithium in his Newell bus in 2013 and wrote about it on the forums. Click HERE.
Techno Viking – This Viking-descended nomad installed Lithium in his rig in early 2014 and has written several posts about them. Click HERE.
Wandering With Purpose – These guys installed a Lithium system in their Airstream this past November (also with Marv). They’ve got a nice installation post HERE.
That’s it for the BBSBU, at least for now. We’ll be going back to our regular blog schedule and some relaxing non-techie posts next. See you down the road….
Yes, the jealous factor just went up considerably.
Question – which I may need to ask Marvelous Marv…living and also storing our coach in AZ means it will get hot both inside and out for extended periods of time. Does that basically disqualify a lithium install?
Well, heat definitely deteriorates your Lithium, so you’d have to find some way you can keep them “relatively” cool. I don’t know if that means installing some fans, or something more. I guess my advice would be to try and measure how hot it actually gets inside your coach (where you plan to install the Lithium) and go from there. But basically extended heat + Lithium = very bad.
You did a great job on the video. Doesn’t look like your first time doing it.
Question:
What amount of power did you take off the main panel to feed the Magnum? 30 Amp? 60 Amp? If 60, 2@30 or?
That is an amazing system. Designing mine now for 42′ fifth wheel toy hauler. Your write-ups were very helpful for me to sort out some of my issues, and got me going in a better direction that I was headed.
Thank you……….
Jon Albinson
After reading all your posts on the new solar system, I am wondering who is more exhausted, Marv or the two of you.
Seriously, for someone who vicariously travels with you this has been quite interesting. I am a 74 year old female which is atypical of one who should be interested in solar.
Nina, you did a magnificent job writing these posts in laymen’s terms. Without any doubt you are the best blogger in the RV arena. Selfishly, I am elated you installed the solar system. It makes me feel you will continue in your RV for a while and I am looking forward to your posts.
Goodness gracious, you got me blushing now Thank you soooo much for the lovely comment. I have to admit these last 4 posts were a bear to write, so I’m very happy to hear they came across well. You’ve made my day!
Oh, what fun! The BBSBU is way beyond my comprehension, much less my meager solar needs, but I watched the video in its entirety just to see your adorable faces and Marvelous Marvin’s sly smile. 😉 As you know, he also did my solar install, and his slow, methodical explanations were so helpful in understanding my system, my favorite thing about my RV! So fun to see you get your “geek on.”
Yeah, it’s one of the things we really like about him. He’s able to explain everything in such a good, easily understandable way. It was fun to have him be part of our video tour.
Beautiful installation. I can see why you call him Marvelous.
I suspect you will get well over 100A into the batteries when the sun is higher. On our boat we could top out the Morningstar MPPT at 60A with less than 900 Watt of panels.
Don’t know if you want to share but would love to know the cost broken down by parts + installation.
Yes, I too would like the know the full cost completely as well. I want to have it done to my 5th wheel. I have contacted them today ( Precision-rv) for a full installation such as yours, and hope that they get back to my soon.
Glad to hear that you are friggin’ loving the upgrade. And, thanks for the link to our lithium post!
I wanted to add that we also placed our Magnum charger/inverter in the bedroom (under the bed). We have the same hybrid unit as yours and I agree that it’s pretty quiet most of the time, but we can definitely hear the internal fan under usage heavy load … but also when charging via shore power – in particular if batteries are low. As a result, I’ve taken to limiting incoming shore-power to 05 or 10amps (via the remote controller) and this seems to work the charger less, limiting the triggering of the internal fan.
You’re absolutely right. Charging via shore power will get those fans going too, especially if you’re set at a high charging level. Just like you, we’ve found that limiting the charge rate helps to moderate this. For my noise tolerance-levels limiting it to around 40% keeps the inverter fan at level #1 which I’m perfectly ok with, so that’s what we do. Thanks for mentioning it!
Wow! Totally awesome series! Very nice job of taking a complex subject and making it understandable. Did not watch the video yet, waiting for good free wifi, but I’m sure it’s awesome! I am very inspired by many of the details you presented.
One burning question I have is regarding the coach engine charging system. I don’t think you mentioned it, but maybe I missed it. I assume your stock engine run alternator/regulator is not up to the task of properly charging the Lithium batteries? So can I assume you just eliminated that as a charging source for the house/lithium batteries and it now just charging the old standard lead acid start batteries? Have you installed some kinds of lithium compliant regulator? Or?m Love your blog!
So, the alternator can certainly charge the lithium but it has no shut-off and will just keep hammering the batteries even after their full (which is *not* good for Lithium). Right now all we have is a simple switch whereby we can turn on alternator charging (if/when we want) and turn it off (when the batteries get close to full). It’s pretty simplistic and relies us on keeping an eye on the whole charging process. Ideally we’ll upgrade this with some kind of regulator down the line.
One of my blog readers actually wrote a detailed comment about how he’s implemented a pretty nifty alternator regulator in his own lithium-powered coach (see my last blog post). Highly recommend clicking back and reading that comment. It’s a pretty sweet set-up and we’ll probably end up doing something like that down the line.
Thanks for sharing lots of helpful info on your website, very nicely done. We share the high praises you have given Marvin for the job he did installing our current solar setup with Lifeline AGM batteries.
We are looking into upgrading our AGM batteries to a 600AH Elite Power Solutions system similar to yours. Since Lithium can soak up much more amperage than AGM there’s a nagging concern about protecting the alternator from overheating. Could you share what you have seen for large charging currents when charging using your alternator? This might not be obvious as your solar is also contributing to charging during daytime driving. The alternator disconnect switch seems to be the simplest approach for protecting the LFP battery, though a battery to battery charger like those made by Sterling could be an alternative with no manual intervention required. I wasn’t able to find the alternator regulator comment you mentioned above.
So honestly we haven’t done much charging w/ the alternator. Since we have so much solar now we haven’t really needed it so we only used it once (for an hour or so), but that’s about it. The way we currently have it set up we just turn it on and turn it off manually with a switch in our external bay.
Long term I think some kind of external regular would be helpful. The commenter in my previous post mentioned that he had hooked up a Balmar external regulator (specifically the Balmar MC-612) which he combined with a dash mounted control switch to shut off the alternator or change it’s charge rate. The Balmar cam be programmed to a lower charge rate to keep the alternator cooler. He has a 280-amp alternator and says he regularly charges at 180 to 200 amps with the alternator with no problems at all.
The Balmar regulator looks interesting. Other options we have been considering are the Sterling battery to battery chargers. The BBW 1260 series have charge profiles including LFP from 60 to 180A models. They should be very easy to install requiring only battery connections. It might be over thinking this, but given the cost of the LFP system and the cost of potential alternator damage alternator protection could be worth the cost. A 60A charge rate would be fine as we typically would be driving for several hours with solar power at the same time.
David and Kathysays
So jealous you guys.
But I’m not going to go lithium until the AGM’s give up the ghost.
And their one-year-old
Thanks for the Post guys very interesting as always
You’ve got several good years ahead of you on this AGMs so you’ll be good to go for now. Maybe Lithium prices will come down by the time you’re ready to switch?
Another incredibly helpful series, thank you very much! The one nagging question I’ve had going through my mind when I’ve thought about solar for home or RV is excess power generated… Did that cross your mind also, if so did Marvin share what happens when the batteries are charged and the solar is pumping in more than the controllers can put into the batteries? I wondered even more with an RV installation since you can’t pump any of the excess power into the grid when boondocking! 🙂 Thanks again, this series was awesome!
Not much you can do with excess power in an RV except turn on stuff and use it! Your charging management systems will control how much you pump into your batteries (so, they won’t overcharge them), but once your batteries are full your extra solar power kinda goes to waste unless you’re using it. No way to hook up to grid power and sell it back (wish there were)!
The biggest advantage of having excess solar is cloudy and/or marginal days. That’s when all those extra solar panels shine and you’re able to recharge your batteries and support your usage despite the grey. That’s honestly the main reason we like having a (somewhat) over-powered system. It takes us through all those marginal days.
Great video, thanks for posting! Looks like a very cool system. Hate to ask, and maybe it’s been mentioned and we missed it, but could you share an approximate total cost of the system installed?
I’m not comfortable listing detailed costs since every installation is very different, but I can certainly divulge that our “major component” costs were around $11K. This includes batteries, battery management, solar chargers, remote and solar panels. Minor components, wiring and labor were all extra.
Thanks for that info Nina, and as you mentioned earlier, you can right off income on your federal taxes for 30 percent of that total next year. That helps a lot. We put solar on our house a few years ago and also installed a panel on the trailer, wrote them both off. Trailer is considered a second home if you stay in it 2 weeks a year.
See above comment. Major component costs (solar panels, solar chargers, remotes, battery and battery management) ran us around $11K. You can add all minor components, wiring and labor on top of that. We will be taking the 30% solar tax credit for this years taxes too, so that adds a nice discount to everything.
Wow, 94A charging rate in the beginning of March!!
We watched your video on our TV, as we were afraid we couldn’t grab all the nicest things you were describing and showing on our laptop. The video looks very clear and well organized. It’s amazing to see your setups, both inside and on the roof. Your system is by far the best we have seen so far.
Wondering what charging parameters you are using to get that much current. Unbelievable! No doubt you will get much more than 100A in summer days, enough to run A/C without generator running! Happy trails!!
Nothing really special about our charging parameters. It’s just the huge array of solar panels we have up there PLUS the excellent installation (super low voltage drops, short/efficient wire runs, no shade etc.) that means we’re able to get the max out of what we have. We’re pumping out everything we can and getting pretty much all of it into the batteries…and summer should be even better.
Nina, How are the chassis batteries charged when you are off grid for extended periods of time? Do you have a BIRD2 charging system or other bi-directional system? How did you account for the different charging parameters? Very curious.
We have a simple Trik-L-Start. It links our house to our chassis batteries and just trickle charges them. Easy and simple. http://www.lslproducts.net/TLSPage.html
Very Impressive, great work on the installation, that cabling looks really good. Do the cells generate internal heat when charging at those levels your getting, The aluminum clamp on each bank seems to be a heat sink, if so does it matter how the banks are placed next to each other ?
We’ve not seen any heat effects except when the battery cells go go into balance. Then they’ll bleed off (and the sense boards will release some heat in the process). No effects on the cells though, and we’ve not seen anything from regular charging or discharging, even under very heavy loads. We’re keeping an eye on heat (in general), but Lithium has such low internal resistance that we don’t expect charging/discharging to be a problem.
We’re definitely headed north along 101, but not sure exactly which towns we’re going to stop in. Kind of depends what we can find given that Spring Break is about to start.
What a fun video and a massive solar upgrade. We meet Marvin and his wife when he was at managing the AM Solar activities during the summer in 2014. He is wonderful and we are happy with our 810W system. 1.5K is a dream for us in 5 years. We’ll watch you Lithium battery reports over the next few years, we only have two years on our 6 – Lifeline batteries. Our 6 batteries, 660AH yield 330 usable AHs, your Lithium setup would save us several hundred pounds and increase our usable AH. We’ll be interested in your hot summer updates.
I’m looking forward to more testing this summer too. It’ll be very interesting to see both our use & generation models as the sun gets higher in the sky and temps get hotter.
Nina & Paul, congrats and super geek kudos for your amazing system! The fun of reading your great write ups was only surpassed by walking through the system on video. I actually felt the vicarious geek-pride welling as you panned around 15 panels filling your roof! Some may say “lead is cheaper”, or “solar’s payback is too long”… but they’re missing the point. Someday this will be the way of the world. RV’s will come with turn-key packages that we wont think twice about. Hookups, extension cords and maybe even generators will be extinct. Before then, pioneering is fun, even exciting to some of us.
“Putting your heads together and figuring how to cut the corners off the first square wheel is a lot more fun than just riding in the finished cart”
And yes, it’s geeky and cool!
One other thing. I hope you both enjoyed doing the video. You were great, looked like you enjoyed it, and if so, we’d like to see many more to supplement your entertaining posts. It’s like we all had a little visit and nobody overstayed their welcome or left half-drunk beers laying around 😉
Thank you very much for the lovely comments! We enjoyed geeking out on this whole thing, and definitely appreciate the positive support on our brand new video venture. Thanks again!
No. We have a dual propane/electric fridge and they are hugely (massively) inefficient on electric. We have it hooked up to the inverter and we could do it, but it’s just more efficient to run it on propane.
Congrats on your new system. Your reply here brings up an off topic fridge related question. Do you leave your propane on (for fridge cooling) while driving to your next locale. I’ve heard that propane should be off while traveling.
So, this is a contentious (much discussed) question that comes up often on the RV forums and you’ll get many strong opinions both ways. We’ve always left our propane on, even while traveling. We only switch it off when we’re re-filling the actual propane tank. Otherwise it’s on all the time.
We just installed a residential fridge from Samsung (RF18) and it draws 1.5amp at 120vac. We run it off our Magnum hybrid inverter attached to our 500AH Lithium batteries and our 790watts of solar. Just boondocked for a week down in Puerto Penasco MX and everything worked great. So, yes, you can run a residential fridge off of Lithium and solar.
We had our system installed by Larry Crutcher at Starlight solar in Yuma.
Great series. I’m going to subscribe to your blog so I can follow along as you post more about your system.
Awesome! That’s about the level of draw we’ve heard from other folks with the Samsung. We planned for that option with our system for when/if our current fridge dies. Great to hear you had a good install!
A recent post here drew me back to re-read it all again and I noticed that I did not mention who installed the fridge. We had it done at RV Renovators in Mesa AZ. They did a great job. Larry at Starlight Solar in Yuma AZ did our solar, batteries, and hybrid inverter.
Joysays
Great video, all three of you spoke with enough info so it was digestible but not overwhelming, great overview! Thank you for putting it together.
With all that power Hwy 395 in the fall will be a snap. Let the furnace run all night. With the system you have now, you’ll just look out the window at all that frost and just laugh. What a wonderful feeling it must be to have such a powerful system.
It’s going to take a while to get used to it all. We’re slowly becoming more “free” with our power usage and recently started leaving the inverter on all the time (which we never did before). It’s definitely a mental switch LOL.
That’s one issue with a residencial fridge, you need to leave the inverter on 24/7. But, the draw is so low that it’s not a big problem. When we went to bed last night we were down 154 amphrs. That was around 2300hrs. When I got up this morning at 0600hrs we were down 218 amphrs. That’s 64 amphrs used over 7 hours, with the inverter on and running the fridge all night. Needless to say, we are happy campers. 8^)
Nina/Paul: This was a fabulous series…So very helpful and well laid out–kudos!
A couple questions:
1. The MPPT is capable of ramping up the the power coming from the panels? (I suppose that’s why they are called “boost” but I’m still not clear on their function.
2. You touched on the issue of extra input power in a previous comment/reply, but I assume it won’t hurt anything if you can’t use the power coming out of the system? Or do you have to turn something on to use it?
3. I have had major issues with cross-winds (with my awnings/push-out covers). Have you had any issues with wind on the panels and what do you do if you encounter really stiff breezes? Obviously we all try to avoid them, but what is your plan if you do encounter strong winds? I know that glue tape is the same stuff they use on airliners, but I’m concerned…
Thanks again…loved the video too! Did not look like your first attempt!
1. MPPT doesn’t create any extra power, but it can boost the current going into your batteries by making the most use of what you’re generating. It does this by taking advantage of the difference in voltages between your panels & your batteries. Basically when there is “excess voltage” available from your panels it converts that to additional current going into your panels. The bigger the difference (between batteries & panels), the bigger the boost. This is a really simplistic explanation, but that’s essentially how it works. In non-MPPT solar chargers this “excess voltage” is just lost so you never see any of it, but MPPT chargers make use of it.
If you want to read a more detailed explanation about MPPT see here: http://www.wholesalesolar.com/solar-information/mppt-article
2. Nope, doesn’t matter if you don’t use the power. Once batteries are full, they go into float and your system basically just sits and “waits” until you start using stuff. Doesn’t hurt anything.
3. Haven’t had any issue with winds and we’ve been in REALLY windy spots (For example, the famous Cape Blanco storm where we hit gusts of 90 MPH). Honestly those sticky feet are amazing.
Here are some prices I got off Nina’s links:
ELITE POWER SYSTEMs
3 GBS-LFMP200AH battery packs @$1,480 each = $4,400.00
EMS CPU = $155.00
EMS 4 cell string sense boards =$122.50
EMS LED screen = $50.00
SUBTOTAL = $4,767.50
BLUE SKY
4 Blue Sky SB3024IL charge controllers @ $377.43 each = $1,509.72
Blue Sky UCM = $249.00
Blue Sky IPN pro remote = $220.00
SUBTOTAL = $1,978.72
AM SOLAR
9 AM Solar GS 100 solar panels @ 279.99 each = $2,519.91
TOTAL = $9,266.13
So that gives people a rough breakdown of what Nina paid for things.
Please note that the above prices didn’t include sales taxes.
Cheers for putting this together Ralph. For the batteries we needed 3 of the sense boards (one for each 200AH “pack”). So, for the batteries here’s the corrected amount.
ELITE POWER SYSTEMs
3 x GBS-LFMP200AH battery packs @$1,480 each = $4,400.00
1 x EMS CPU = $155.00
3 x EMS 4 cell string sense boards @122.50 =$367.50
1 x EMS LED screen = $50.00
SUBTOTAL = $5,012.50
All the rest of the solar components (panels + chargers), except for the UCM we got from AM Solar. Some of their list prices are a little different than the above, but it’s all pretty close. When you add-on panel tilt mounts, combiner boxes and a few extras the “major” components came to around $11K in total. Minor components (shunts, breakers, switches etc.) plus wiring & labor goes on top.
I formed my price list in spreadsheet form once you provided links. I did do a cost comparison for the solar panels by $ per watt and watts per square inch.
I thought that I read something about some company working on the heat problem. Hopefully this can be applied to the RV type batteries.
You are correct. I linked directly to Blue Sky in the post even tho we purchased most of the Blue Sky components from AM Solar. Minor differences, but that accounts for it. Appreciate all the work you did to put this together and share it!
How long did the process take from beginning your shadows cutouts for the roof, ordering everything, installation, and then testing the solar system out?
Ah goodness, that’s a tough one. We waffled back and forth about the BBSBU for a while, but I guess once we finally decided to go ahead and do it the whole thing only took a month all-in-all. We discussed parts for a few weeks with Marv, then everything was ordered and we travelled to see him. Once we got together it all happened really fast. Just 5 or so full days and it was done. I think you could easily do the whole thing in a few weeks if you had all your research done ahead of time.
Great job on the video guys! Very professional and informative! You have nothing to apologize for. No one would ever know it was your first! As I have said before, I now have battery envy. But, ya know the saying about the cobblers family having no shoes. I shouldn’t complain though. I can do whatever I want with the system we have.
Fantastic wrap-up of a fabulous upgrade that we know you’ll love for years to come! Can’t wait until we are next together again and can boondock in abundance with our mutual setups.
And the video format suits you guys well, or maybe that’s just me enjoying seeing your smiling faces.
Ok.. off to plan our next upgrade, can’t let you get ahead for tooooo long. 😉
Hi Nina,
Thanks again for an awesome series! Did you order the components from Blue Sky & Amazon, then take everything to Quartzite for Marvin to install? Just trying to figure out the logistics of getting everything we need this year to benefit from the tax credit and possibly schedule installation with Marvin for Jan. 2017
We just let Marvin handle everything. He has all the connections (at AM Solar, Elite etc.) and gets good prices. By the way you can only take the credit in the tax year you do the actual install. So if you install in 2017, you cannot take the tax credit until you file your 2017 taxes.
Just so you know, I confess to be one of the “lurking readers” who enjoy and soak up your blogs, stories, tips and beautiful photographs without providing any regular feedback.
I tend to find authors who provide something worthwhile of my reading time and stick with them faithfully, even if it’s in the background.
But, I felt the need to break from my routine of silence to tell you how much I’ve enjoyed and appreciated your recent blogs on your solar explosion! I love to read commentary from someone like yourself who has a good understanding of not only the aesthetic aspects of a project, but the down ‘n dirty techie details. I’m an engineer by degree so the techie focus is right down my path!
I’ve enjoyed reading your logic and science-based decisions of why you did what you did and your expectations. You have an extraordinary skill of describing something very detailed without the usual look-down-your-nose attitude others seem to have. THANK YOU for that approach!
I also share your love for photography so you’ve got your work cut out for you – keeping the information-soakers like myself fulfilled!
Thanks again for your interest, effort and willingness to converse with the rest of the world about your nomadic lifestyle.
Good to know…thanks, Nina! I thought we could meet up with Marvin in Quartzite & you had mentioned he was there in Jan. I can’t thank you enough for such detail…it will save me a ton of research!! Deb
Thank you for all the upgrade information. I basically have your old system installed on my coach and will be keeping it for some time. Are you able to take any tax credits or deductions on your new installation?
Yes, we qualify for the 30% Solar Tax Credit (officially known as the Residential Energy Credit, IRS Form 5695). We’ll take it in our 2016 taxes (since that’s the year we got the installation done).
I,m wondering about the color display unit you installed in your battery/solar upgrade. Looks like It lets you see the status of your solar system real time. I especially like the graphic display of the data. It appears to be in addition to the Blue Sky monitor and am wondering who makes it and how it ties it into your system. It looks like a really great way to see the status of your solar and batteries at any time. In your final video about the new system you demonstrated it but did not talk about the manufacturer or how it is connected into the system. Perhaps a Marvin special?
Are you talking about the LCD Screen that looks like this?
That’s just the standard EPS LCD Monitor that’s used together with the batteries. I listed it in Part II and Part III of our installation (both posts). Marv wired this from our batteries in the back of the RV to the center of the RV (where we have all our control panels).
I assume when you made this conversion you ditched the emergency switch so you can’t use your House system to backup the Chassis system. Personally I don’t see that being a big deal.
Don’t know if most of your noise is from the inverter, the vent fans or a combination of both. If it’s the inverter you could look at Sonex® Valueline Acoustic foam to line cabinet. If the fans check out some low noise fans. They have very special blade design that really makes them quite.
No we still have it! We kept the “battery boost” function that connects the two in case we need to boost the Chassis batteries to start the rig. However we don’t really need it anymore. We installed a Trik-L Start charger that maintains the Chassis batteries, so they are kept topped-off even when we’re parked or unplugged.
Sometimes I wish my van’s roof was the size of your coach’s. We squeezed 800W of solar panels on top of a Sprinter van. Added a 700Ah lithium battery, Victron solar charge controller, inverter and Color Controller.
We’ve written quite a bit about the choices we made (and about DIY installing a 12V and 120V electrical system in a vehicle) at our site sprintervanusa.com
We chose the Balqon battery and you probably made the right choice not using them. They are not customer-centric. The battery is great though!
We didn’t have an underwear draw to start with, so no loss there!
I’m darn impressed you squeezed that much juice onto your Sprinter van. Sweet setup! Cheers for sharing it. We have some smaller rig followers on the blog who will definitely be interested.
This was a fabulous series and I’m so appreciative of all the time and effort you put into it. You’ve saved me hours of research as I perform the requisite due diligence for a solar installation.
I’ve just ordered a 2017 40′ 5th wheel and I’ve already been in contact with Marvin regarding a solar installation once it arrives. Since I’m in Phoenix it will be easy to coordinate with his winter schedule. I was initially uncertain if I wanted to go with lithium but I’ve discovered that the only way I can receive the tax credit for the batteries is if I include them in the initial installation. That fact alone made the decision easy. I will use a lot of your ideas in my installation, but I think I’m going to locate the inverter somewhere other than the bedroom. I just retired from United Airlines where I used to fly the lithium battery equipped Boeing 787 Dreamliner to China and Australia. I suppose if I can trust the batteries while crossing the Pacific Ocean, I can trust them in my bedroom!
Thanks again for making my research so much easier!
Quick question for you (didn’t see this answered in the posts, but we apologize if we missed it): do your batteries also charge from the engine alternator when you are driving (or do they only charge from shore & solar)? If so… was there anything special that you needed to do to ensure the charging parameters are met?
YES the alternator can definitely charge the batteries with *one* caveat. The batteries can easily handle whatever max current the alternator can put out (no need to do anything special there), but what they can’t handle is over-charging and since the alternator has no automatic shut-off that is something you either have to regulate or watch manually.
For our system Marv just installed a manual switch (in our external battery bay) for our alternator so that we can control when/if we want to turn it on. It’s pretty simplistic and relies us on keeping an eye on the whole charging process, but it gives us another nice little (easy) way to charge the batteries for a few hours while driving if we need to. The only reason we haven’t used it yet is that our solar has been doing such a good job (on the road too) that we haven’t needed any extra charging options.
One of my blog readers actually wrote a detailed comment about how he’s implemented a pretty nifty alternator regulator in his own lithium-powered coach (see my last blog post). Highly recommend clicking back and reading that comment. It’s a pretty sweet set-up and we’ll probably end up doing something like that down the line.
Thanks, Nina! That’s what we thought! It certainly makes sense that your solar is more than capable of keeping the batteries topped up, so the engine/alternator charging is less important. We’ve been doing a lot of reading on lithium recently (yes… we’re jealous… and want it, LOL!) and have seen lithium upgrades that include a separate alternator for charging the lithium separately from the chassis batteries. One we recall had a regulator that included a control signal from the lithium BMS… so the charging could be disabled when the batteries were full. Pretty slick.
Yes that sounds like a VERY slick setup! For folks who can’t fit as many solar panels as us on the roof (which admittedly might be many) and/or those who prefer not to use a generator and/or times when solar is bad (shade/rain etc.) it’s great to have the backup to charge via alternator from the engine. Since lithium can suck up just about as much charge as you can give it, a couple hours drive can provide a nice little top-off.
Perhaps lithium will be the basis for a 2017 The RV Geeks video series? I would LOVE to see that!
Home Depot had the Grape 265 watts solar panels on sale through June 21st for $999 if one purchased 4 of them all together. This is less than $1 per watt. This totaled 1,060 watts. So unless Nina can find a link making AM Solar Panels cheaper, the Grape ones are now roughly 3 times cheaper.
Since Nina brought up the space the solar panels take up:
AM Solar recommendation from Nina with 1,000 watts = 163.2 inches wide for 4 across
Grape Solar 265 watts for 4 of them totaling 1, 060 watts = a tad below 130 inches wide if you can get two in width wise instead of 3 as in Nina’s motorhome.
I agree with Van that it was an awesome series on solar power. I just wanted to let people know the updated pricing on the Grape solar panels for a comparison.
Van thanks for the suggestion. I came up with a link for 4 of your solar panels for $676 or so if my memory is right after I came home from the library. However, I will not do the installation work as I want it done properly and professionally installed. I will be doing some of my maintenance work on the travel trailer, but some items on the 6 month and 12 month list that I saw from Arctic Fox that I wouldn’t want to attempt so will go to a RV dealership to get those items done. After we get the last debt paid off, then I am contacting Marvin again to see what his price will be and compare to what Travel Units will cost me. Since Nina recommended him, I would prefer Marvin and help support people within the RV community. I would want some other work done by Marvin as well if everything works out.
I saw this quote somewhere on the internet when I was taking notes on RV subjects:
“The rule of thumb for solar to battery AH is (as far as I recall) in the range of 50 to 150 watts of solar per 100 AH of battery”
Then, I did battery to solar comparison:
600 AH of battery = 300 – 900 watts of solar
800 AH of battery = 400 – 1,200 watts of solar
1,000 AH of battery = 500 – 1,500 watts of solar
1,200 AH of battery = 600 – 1,800 watts of solar
However, I was still thinking that Nina’s 4 day supply of energy is best as I learned before we purchased the pop up camper as it was suppose to rain on the east coast for 10 days and had already rained 3 before we headed to Yellowstone. So I was thinking long term about having 1,000 AH – 1,200 AH or maybe even 1,400 AH provided that we can get 8 Grape 265 watts solar panels on the roof. However, the lithium batteries are pretty expensive so the batteries might have to be purchased over time. On the initial installation I had 4 batteries on my list with 8 265 watts Grape solar panels (want the same brand and type).
BTW I thought that I posted on one of Nina’s solar upgrade posts that Marvin did someone with over 2,000+ watts for their RV.
I am forever grateful for Nina doing the series on solar power as the books that I read didn’t have very much in them on the subject. I did take notes on Moeller’s solar tilting. I hadn’t done anything electrical in formula since either junior high or high school so this was a good refresher course for me. I did have a couple of electrical things done on the home such as a new GFI (yes, those can go bad in your home) and had installed two electrical outlets out front for Christmas lights before that.
Right now it is slightly above T-2+ years before going under the knife again since the surgeon said that my surgery was supposed to last 10 – 15 years. This would be just 3 months before I would have to tell TU that I would want the TT built if after the full 15 years. So RV full timing could depend on my health and when my surgery takes place. Plus I still have to hope that my wife will allow me to do this while she can take her international vacations once a year and come back to me after her trips. Plus it has to make financial sense as I don’t want to get into financial difficulties anymore. Back at the library again so the granddaughter can check out 6 DVDs to watch today.
Funny when I tried to get the link to Van’s solar panels that I saw online, I couldn’t find my price link again. Anyways I found a new solar power link for me and no company was mentioned on here except Grape, which wasn’t recommended since they haven’t been around long enough for the article.
My wife and I went to a fireworks show. One of the vendors had a Honda 6500 watt generator and was very loud (my wife and I were pretty far from him). I asked him to move his vehicle to act as a sound barrier only he didn’t fully cover the generator when he moved his vehicle so we still got the noise. So I moved my vehicle to park parallel with the road and have another sound barrier. This reduced the noise a lot, but didn’t remove all of it. This enabled us to listen to the band playing at the event. Anyway this brings up a question which is doesn’t the generator companies produced a gadget that reduces the noise that come from their products?
Hi Nina,
This a late addition to an ‘old post’ but I hope it will give extra info/food-for-thought for beginners and those teetering on the brink of having Solar. I made a surprising discovery from experimentation, on the subject of partial-shade on solar panels. We have 4 solar panels about 5ft x 2ft on our 5th wheel, and all connected ‘in parallel’ (so, 4x8A = 32A @ 17v). I was considering adding 2 more panels, and I know it would be more practical to connect them ‘in series pairs’ (daisy-chained, like batteries in a flashlight), to reduce wiring and also total current through the thick wires to the solar controller. I figured I’d rewire to have 2, or 3, pairs of series-connected panels – so double the voltage, which the solar controller handles automatically, while halving the total current.
– BUT – when I experimentally connected 2 in series on a sunny day (others disconnected!), but then shaded just a small, shoe-box-size area of only one panel, the total current running through BOTH panels, dropped from 8A to only 3A! (For maths nerds, that’s a 62% output drop for only 2.5% shaded area!!). I know you’ve mentioned before the adverse effects of partial shade, but I had no idea such a little area of shade on one panel would so much affect any others connected in series with it! So my point is, despite the increased total current rating and cables needed, I think I’ll stick with all my panels being connected in parallel – so then if any one panel gets partially shaded, at least the others continue to make their full contribution without suffering! Hope this helps someone. Cheers.
Great example of the shade issue! It’s especially a problem when panels are wired in series (less so when the panels are wired in parallel). Thanks much for sharing your story.
Thought we had posted previously but could not find it on this thread.
We have two RVs with solar/LFP systems
34′ 5th wheel: 1410 W of panels which transmit energy to 45 amp MPPT controller at 90 V, and then to 9.5 kW-hr LFP at 48 V (nominal). Power goes to outlets via 4.5 kW PSWI and 500 W Mean Well 48 V to 12 V converter. Have only used line power once in two years and that was when we left rig at an RV park for 5 days. We use this rig for US and western Canada. Equivalent lead-acid battery bank would be about 800 pounds and would be over front bay, kingpin, and rear axle limits. We are full timers and have 4.5 years on this system.
19′ Roadtrek: 415 W of panels which transmit energy to two controllers to 4.5 kW-hr LFP at 12 V (nominal). Power goes to outlets via 2.5 kW PSWI and standard 12 V.We got this rig for 14 weeks in Labrador and Newfoundland – and to visit places in Mexico you could not get a 5th wheel in – and if you did, you probably could not get out. San Cristobal de las Casas and Pátzcuaro being quite notable in this respect. Equivalent lead-acid battery suite would be 400 pounds heavier which would be more than rear axle limits. We have 1.5 years with this system. Plugged in while on beach in Yucatan. Since there is “dirty” electrical power both in US and Mexico, we only use a 15 amp (Roadtrek has an organic 30 amp – but we generally have to “stretch) and the power goes through battery charger to batteries. The same is true for the 5th wheel.
We never leave propane on while traveling. It is potentially dangerous and fridge is easily cooled using the solar. Solar during day, propane at night
Reed and Elaine
Hi guys – thank you for the FANTASTIC lithium write-up! I’m about to do the same upgrade. But Elite has notified me that their EMS is not designed for Battery banks larger them 500Ah. Have you found it easy or difficult to use their EMS with your 600Ah bank? What’s your workaround?
Thank you again – hope to meet you on the road sometime soon 🙂
No I did not (and sorry for the late reply). We set it for bulk charge at 14V, float at 13.4V. We initially had it set for a slightly higher bulk (either 14.1 or 14.2, I can’t quite recall), but decided to dial it back a tad. These settings have worked well for us.
Great information. Thank you. I am considering making a blog on a side topic. Winter use of RV/Camper. Powder chasing and finding scenic places to camp not too far away from the ski area. Question, do you make real money on the advertising links? Let’s say “real money” is over $20,000 per year. Thanks so much.
Regarding your money question. Through Google ads….no, definitely not. They pay very, very little. Through affiliate links….it’s possible depending on the company and terms. I don’t do a lot of affiliates (I’m particularly picky, and only work with folks I actually trust & use myself), but there are good arrangements out there if you have enough blog traffic & hussle.
For Ralph and others – You might like this thread: (http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/forums/showthread.php?p=332786#post332786). I started it for my fellow Bluebird friends. You will see that I’m forecasting $9k with an 800 Ah pack and a Magnum Mini-Mag panel (which should consolidate & clean the install up a bit). That includes the misc items with “free” installation of course ;). Significant savings is obtained using BIG discounted house panels from SunElec.com and the single Magnum PT100, which I hope will seamlessly “talk” to the rest of the Magnum system. Biggest savings though is in the cost of the panels – 1,425 watts for less than $1,000! Though the larger 72 cell panels can produce u to a whopping 330 watts each (over 1,600 watts total!), I’ll likely select the shorter ones for aesthetic reasons AND to keep Nina/Paul in the geek lead a bit longer 😉
Thanks again Nina for the awesome series. Your timing was impeccable! 🙂
Van, courious about 2 things in your design:
1) Great price on the Sunvia OPT285-S35 Mono panels. Where are you buying them?
2) I am designing a large system for my toy hauler. All Magnum. Studied the Magnum Energy MMP250 and could not figure out why I would add it to my system. Guesssing you already have your AC loads subpaneled and you are bringing this unit in to make the install a bit cleaner, but would appreciate your opine on the reasoning.
This has been a very valuable blog by all of you for me, and I am sure many others. Thank you.
Jon
1) Sunelec.com – US warehouses in FL & AZ. At the time of this post those panels are listed on their site for $194 each in grade B. Also, iMarineUSA.com has excellent prices on most Magnum products.
2) Bingo – the Magnum panel promises to bring each separate part of the system together into a highly functional yet compact stack. This should make wiring easier (I hope 🙂 ). Closet mounting of it all will be my challenge and that panel should help. Not everyone has a sacrificial underwear drawer 😉
[…] While his website was down it was still easy to learn about him. There’s so much positive buzz out there on other blogs, forums, and websites that a very clear picture about who he was and what […]
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Yes, the jealous factor just went up considerably.
Question – which I may need to ask Marvelous Marv…living and also storing our coach in AZ means it will get hot both inside and out for extended periods of time. Does that basically disqualify a lithium install?
Tony
Well, heat definitely deteriorates your Lithium, so you’d have to find some way you can keep them “relatively” cool. I don’t know if that means installing some fans, or something more. I guess my advice would be to try and measure how hot it actually gets inside your coach (where you plan to install the Lithium) and go from there. But basically extended heat + Lithium = very bad.
Nina
You did a great job on the video. Doesn’t look like your first time doing it.
Question:
What amount of power did you take off the main panel to feed the Magnum? 30 Amp? 60 Amp? If 60, 2@30 or?
That is an amazing system. Designing mine now for 42′ fifth wheel toy hauler. Your write-ups were very helpful for me to sort out some of my issues, and got me going in a better direction that I was headed.
Thank you……….
Jon Albinson
Our old inverter had a 30 Amp line going to it. Marv upgraded it to 50 Amp, so that’s what we have now.
Nina
After reading all your posts on the new solar system, I am wondering who is more exhausted, Marv or the two of you.
Seriously, for someone who vicariously travels with you this has been quite interesting. I am a 74 year old female which is atypical of one who should be interested in solar.
Nina, you did a magnificent job writing these posts in laymen’s terms. Without any doubt you are the best blogger in the RV arena. Selfishly, I am elated you installed the solar system. It makes me feel you will continue in your RV for a while and I am looking forward to your posts.
Marilyn
Goodness gracious, you got me blushing now
Thank you soooo much for the lovely comment. I have to admit these last 4 posts were a bear to write, so I’m very happy to hear they came across well. You’ve made my day!
Nina
Great job on the video, guys! I thought it was very professionally done. I especially liked the embedded pictures and illustrations.
Thank you much!
Nina
Oh, what fun! The BBSBU is way beyond my comprehension, much less my meager solar needs, but I watched the video in its entirety just to see your adorable faces and Marvelous Marvin’s sly smile. 😉 As you know, he also did my solar install, and his slow, methodical explanations were so helpful in understanding my system, my favorite thing about my RV! So fun to see you get your “geek on.”
Yeah, it’s one of the things we really like about him. He’s able to explain everything in such a good, easily understandable way. It was fun to have him be part of our video tour.
Nina
Beautiful installation. I can see why you call him Marvelous.
I suspect you will get well over 100A into the batteries when the sun is higher. On our boat we could top out the Morningstar MPPT at 60A with less than 900 Watt of panels.
Don’t know if you want to share but would love to know the cost broken down by parts + installation.
wayne
Yes, I too would like the know the full cost completely as well. I want to have it done to my 5th wheel. I have contacted them today ( Precision-rv) for a full installation such as yours, and hope that they get back to my soon.
Wonderful job on your first Video. Can’t wait to get our system installed. You Guys Are Rock Stars!!!
Glad to hear that you are friggin’ loving the upgrade. And, thanks for the link to our lithium post!
I wanted to add that we also placed our Magnum charger/inverter in the bedroom (under the bed). We have the same hybrid unit as yours and I agree that it’s pretty quiet most of the time, but we can definitely hear the internal fan under usage heavy load … but also when charging via shore power – in particular if batteries are low. As a result, I’ve taken to limiting incoming shore-power to 05 or 10amps (via the remote controller) and this seems to work the charger less, limiting the triggering of the internal fan.
You’re absolutely right. Charging via shore power will get those fans going too, especially if you’re set at a high charging level. Just like you, we’ve found that limiting the charge rate helps to moderate this. For my noise tolerance-levels limiting it to around 40% keeps the inverter fan at level #1 which I’m perfectly ok with, so that’s what we do. Thanks for mentioning it!
Nina
Wow! Totally awesome series! Very nice job of taking a complex subject and making it understandable. Did not watch the video yet, waiting for good free wifi, but I’m sure it’s awesome! I am very inspired by many of the details you presented.
One burning question I have is regarding the coach engine charging system. I don’t think you mentioned it, but maybe I missed it. I assume your stock engine run alternator/regulator is not up to the task of properly charging the Lithium batteries? So can I assume you just eliminated that as a charging source for the house/lithium batteries and it now just charging the old standard lead acid start batteries? Have you installed some kinds of lithium compliant regulator? Or?m Love your blog!
So, the alternator can certainly charge the lithium but it has no shut-off and will just keep hammering the batteries even after their full (which is *not* good for Lithium). Right now all we have is a simple switch whereby we can turn on alternator charging (if/when we want) and turn it off (when the batteries get close to full). It’s pretty simplistic and relies us on keeping an eye on the whole charging process. Ideally we’ll upgrade this with some kind of regulator down the line.
One of my blog readers actually wrote a detailed comment about how he’s implemented a pretty nifty alternator regulator in his own lithium-powered coach (see my last blog post). Highly recommend clicking back and reading that comment. It’s a pretty sweet set-up and we’ll probably end up doing something like that down the line.
Nina
Thanks for sharing lots of helpful info on your website, very nicely done. We share the high praises you have given Marvin for the job he did installing our current solar setup with Lifeline AGM batteries.
We are looking into upgrading our AGM batteries to a 600AH Elite Power Solutions system similar to yours. Since Lithium can soak up much more amperage than AGM there’s a nagging concern about protecting the alternator from overheating. Could you share what you have seen for large charging currents when charging using your alternator? This might not be obvious as your solar is also contributing to charging during daytime driving. The alternator disconnect switch seems to be the simplest approach for protecting the LFP battery, though a battery to battery charger like those made by Sterling could be an alternative with no manual intervention required. I wasn’t able to find the alternator regulator comment you mentioned above.
So honestly we haven’t done much charging w/ the alternator. Since we have so much solar now we haven’t really needed it so we only used it once (for an hour or so), but that’s about it. The way we currently have it set up we just turn it on and turn it off manually with a switch in our external bay.
Long term I think some kind of external regular would be helpful. The commenter in my previous post mentioned that he had hooked up a Balmar external regulator (specifically the Balmar MC-612) which he combined with a dash mounted control switch to shut off the alternator or change it’s charge rate. The Balmar cam be programmed to a lower charge rate to keep the alternator cooler. He has a 280-amp alternator and says he regularly charges at 180 to 200 amps with the alternator with no problems at all.
Nina
The Balmar regulator looks interesting. Other options we have been considering are the Sterling battery to battery chargers. The BBW 1260 series have charge profiles including LFP from 60 to 180A models. They should be very easy to install requiring only battery connections. It might be over thinking this, but given the cost of the LFP system and the cost of potential alternator damage alternator protection could be worth the cost. A 60A charge rate would be fine as we typically would be driving for several hours with solar power at the same time.
So jealous you guys.
But I’m not going to go lithium until the AGM’s give up the ghost.
And their one-year-old
Thanks for the Post guys very interesting as always
You’ve got several good years ahead of you on this AGMs so you’ll be good to go for now. Maybe Lithium prices will come down by the time you’re ready to switch?
Nina
Another incredibly helpful series, thank you very much! The one nagging question I’ve had going through my mind when I’ve thought about solar for home or RV is excess power generated… Did that cross your mind also, if so did Marvin share what happens when the batteries are charged and the solar is pumping in more than the controllers can put into the batteries? I wondered even more with an RV installation since you can’t pump any of the excess power into the grid when boondocking! 🙂 Thanks again, this series was awesome!
Not much you can do with excess power in an RV except turn on stuff and use it! Your charging management systems will control how much you pump into your batteries (so, they won’t overcharge them), but once your batteries are full your extra solar power kinda goes to waste unless you’re using it. No way to hook up to grid power and sell it back (wish there were)!
The biggest advantage of having excess solar is cloudy and/or marginal days. That’s when all those extra solar panels shine and you’re able to recharge your batteries and support your usage despite the grey. That’s honestly the main reason we like having a (somewhat) over-powered system. It takes us through all those marginal days.
Nina
Great video, thanks for posting! Looks like a very cool system. Hate to ask, and maybe it’s been mentioned and we missed it, but could you share an approximate total cost of the system installed?
I’m not comfortable listing detailed costs since every installation is very different, but I can certainly divulge that our “major component” costs were around $11K. This includes batteries, battery management, solar chargers, remote and solar panels. Minor components, wiring and labor were all extra.
Nina
Thank you!
Thanks for that info Nina, and as you mentioned earlier, you can right off income on your federal taxes for 30 percent of that total next year. That helps a lot. We put solar on our house a few years ago and also installed a panel on the trailer, wrote them both off. Trailer is considered a second home if you stay in it 2 weeks a year.
Definitely. We will most certainly be taking advantage of that tax credit.
Nina
Curious as to what the total cost was for the Big Beastly Solar/Battery upgrade?
See above comment. Major component costs (solar panels, solar chargers, remotes, battery and battery management) ran us around $11K. You can add all minor components, wiring and labor on top of that. We will be taking the 30% solar tax credit for this years taxes too, so that adds a nice discount to everything.
Nina
Love the video. Great job. And what a set up. Technomadia are probably impressed. Safe travels.
Wow, 94A charging rate in the beginning of March!!
We watched your video on our TV, as we were afraid we couldn’t grab all the nicest things you were describing and showing on our laptop. The video looks very clear and well organized. It’s amazing to see your setups, both inside and on the roof. Your system is by far the best we have seen so far.
Wondering what charging parameters you are using to get that much current. Unbelievable! No doubt you will get much more than 100A in summer days, enough to run A/C without generator running! Happy trails!!
Nothing really special about our charging parameters. It’s just the huge array of solar panels we have up there PLUS the excellent installation (super low voltage drops, short/efficient wire runs, no shade etc.) that means we’re able to get the max out of what we have. We’re pumping out everything we can and getting pretty much all of it into the batteries…and summer should be even better.
Nina
Nina, How are the chassis batteries charged when you are off grid for extended periods of time? Do you have a BIRD2 charging system or other bi-directional system? How did you account for the different charging parameters? Very curious.
We have a simple Trik-L-Start. It links our house to our chassis batteries and just trickle charges them. Easy and simple.
http://www.lslproducts.net/TLSPage.html
Nina
Very Impressive, great work on the installation, that cabling looks really good. Do the cells generate internal heat when charging at those levels your getting, The aluminum clamp on each bank seems to be a heat sink, if so does it matter how the banks are placed next to each other ?
We’ve not seen any heat effects except when the battery cells go go into balance. Then they’ll bleed off (and the sense boards will release some heat in the process). No effects on the cells though, and we’ve not seen anything from regular charging or discharging, even under very heavy loads. We’re keeping an eye on heat (in general), but Lithium has such low internal resistance that we don’t expect charging/discharging to be a problem.
Nina
Thanks, very cool. (btw, I’m right near you. Are you headed to Santa Barbara or Carpinteria after Rincon)
We’re definitely headed north along 101, but not sure exactly which towns we’re going to stop in. Kind of depends what we can find given that Spring Break is about to start.
Nina
Im blown away. You guys have just planted a seed into somebody’s brain in the family. But for now we will just be drooling with envy.
What a fun video and a massive solar upgrade. We meet Marvin and his wife when he was at managing the AM Solar activities during the summer in 2014. He is wonderful and we are happy with our 810W system. 1.5K is a dream for us in 5 years. We’ll watch you Lithium battery reports over the next few years, we only have two years on our 6 – Lifeline batteries. Our 6 batteries, 660AH yield 330 usable AHs, your Lithium setup would save us several hundred pounds and increase our usable AH. We’ll be interested in your hot summer updates.
Great video, more please.
sma
I’m looking forward to more testing this summer too. It’ll be very interesting to see both our use & generation models as the sun gets higher in the sky and temps get hotter.
Nina
Nina & Paul, congrats and super geek kudos for your amazing system! The fun of reading your great write ups was only surpassed by walking through the system on video. I actually felt the vicarious geek-pride welling as you panned around 15 panels filling your roof! Some may say “lead is cheaper”, or “solar’s payback is too long”… but they’re missing the point. Someday this will be the way of the world. RV’s will come with turn-key packages that we wont think twice about. Hookups, extension cords and maybe even generators will be extinct. Before then, pioneering is fun, even exciting to some of us.
“Putting your heads together and figuring how to cut the corners off the first square wheel is a lot more fun than just riding in the finished cart”
And yes, it’s geeky and cool!
One other thing. I hope you both enjoyed doing the video. You were great, looked like you enjoyed it, and if so, we’d like to see many more to supplement your entertaining posts. It’s like we all had a little visit and nobody overstayed their welcome or left half-drunk beers laying around 😉
Richard C.
Thank you very much for the lovely comments! We enjoyed geeking out on this whole thing, and definitely appreciate the positive support on our brand new video venture. Thanks again!
Nina
Are you running the fridge off the batteries now?
No. We have a dual propane/electric fridge and they are hugely (massively) inefficient on electric. We have it hooked up to the inverter and we could do it, but it’s just more efficient to run it on propane.
Nina
Now that you’ve got the juice, a house fridge should be on your radar. They’re amazingly efficient now and ahh so spacious inside! Check posts #38 & #52 here: http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20410&page=4
Congrats on the whole BBSBU project & LOVED your Hollywood debut!
Congrats on your new system. Your reply here brings up an off topic fridge related question. Do you leave your propane on (for fridge cooling) while driving to your next locale. I’ve heard that propane should be off while traveling.
So, this is a contentious (much discussed) question that comes up often on the RV forums and you’ll get many strong opinions both ways. We’ve always left our propane on, even while traveling. We only switch it off when we’re re-filling the actual propane tank. Otherwise it’s on all the time.
Nina
We just installed a residential fridge from Samsung (RF18) and it draws 1.5amp at 120vac. We run it off our Magnum hybrid inverter attached to our 500AH Lithium batteries and our 790watts of solar. Just boondocked for a week down in Puerto Penasco MX and everything worked great. So, yes, you can run a residential fridge off of Lithium and solar.
We had our system installed by Larry Crutcher at Starlight solar in Yuma.
Great series. I’m going to subscribe to your blog so I can follow along as you post more about your system.
thx…
— jcw3rd
Awesome! That’s about the level of draw we’ve heard from other folks with the Samsung. We planned for that option with our system for when/if our current fridge dies. Great to hear you had a good install!
Nina
A recent post here drew me back to re-read it all again and I noticed that I did not mention who installed the fridge. We had it done at RV Renovators in Mesa AZ. They did a great job. Larry at Starlight Solar in Yuma AZ did our solar, batteries, and hybrid inverter.
Great video, all three of you spoke with enough info so it was digestible but not overwhelming, great overview! Thank you for putting it together.
With all that power Hwy 395 in the fall will be a snap. Let the furnace run all night. With the system you have now, you’ll just look out the window at all that frost and just laugh. What a wonderful feeling it must be to have such a powerful system.
It’s going to take a while to get used to it all. We’re slowly becoming more “free” with our power usage and recently started leaving the inverter on all the time (which we never did before). It’s definitely a mental switch LOL.
Nina
That’s one issue with a residencial fridge, you need to leave the inverter on 24/7. But, the draw is so low that it’s not a big problem. When we went to bed last night we were down 154 amphrs. That was around 2300hrs. When I got up this morning at 0600hrs we were down 218 amphrs. That’s 64 amphrs used over 7 hours, with the inverter on and running the fridge all night. Needless to say, we are happy campers. 8^)
Nina/Paul: This was a fabulous series…So very helpful and well laid out–kudos!
A couple questions:
1. The MPPT is capable of ramping up the the power coming from the panels? (I suppose that’s why they are called “boost” but I’m still not clear on their function.
2. You touched on the issue of extra input power in a previous comment/reply, but I assume it won’t hurt anything if you can’t use the power coming out of the system? Or do you have to turn something on to use it?
3. I have had major issues with cross-winds (with my awnings/push-out covers). Have you had any issues with wind on the panels and what do you do if you encounter really stiff breezes? Obviously we all try to avoid them, but what is your plan if you do encounter strong winds? I know that glue tape is the same stuff they use on airliners, but I’m concerned…
Thanks again…loved the video too! Did not look like your first attempt!
Hi Mark,
1. MPPT doesn’t create any extra power, but it can boost the current going into your batteries by making the most use of what you’re generating. It does this by taking advantage of the difference in voltages between your panels & your batteries. Basically when there is “excess voltage” available from your panels it converts that to additional current going into your panels. The bigger the difference (between batteries & panels), the bigger the boost. This is a really simplistic explanation, but that’s essentially how it works. In non-MPPT solar chargers this “excess voltage” is just lost so you never see any of it, but MPPT chargers make use of it.
If you want to read a more detailed explanation about MPPT see here:
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/solar-information/mppt-article
2. Nope, doesn’t matter if you don’t use the power. Once batteries are full, they go into float and your system basically just sits and “waits” until you start using stuff. Doesn’t hurt anything.
3. Haven’t had any issue with winds and we’ve been in REALLY windy spots (For example, the famous Cape Blanco storm where we hit gusts of 90 MPH). Honestly those sticky feet are amazing.
Nina
Here are some prices I got off Nina’s links:
ELITE POWER SYSTEMs
3 GBS-LFMP200AH battery packs @$1,480 each = $4,400.00
EMS CPU = $155.00
EMS 4 cell string sense boards =$122.50
EMS LED screen = $50.00
SUBTOTAL = $4,767.50
BLUE SKY
4 Blue Sky SB3024IL charge controllers @ $377.43 each = $1,509.72
Blue Sky UCM = $249.00
Blue Sky IPN pro remote = $220.00
SUBTOTAL = $1,978.72
AM SOLAR
9 AM Solar GS 100 solar panels @ 279.99 each = $2,519.91
TOTAL = $9,266.13
So that gives people a rough breakdown of what Nina paid for things.
Please note that the above prices didn’t include sales taxes.
Cheers for putting this together Ralph. For the batteries we needed 3 of the sense boards (one for each 200AH “pack”). So, for the batteries here’s the corrected amount.
ELITE POWER SYSTEMs
3 x GBS-LFMP200AH battery packs @$1,480 each = $4,400.00
1 x EMS CPU = $155.00
3 x EMS 4 cell string sense boards @122.50 =$367.50
1 x EMS LED screen = $50.00
SUBTOTAL = $5,012.50
All the rest of the solar components (panels + chargers), except for the UCM we got from AM Solar. Some of their list prices are a little different than the above, but it’s all pretty close. When you add-on panel tilt mounts, combiner boxes and a few extras the “major” components came to around $11K in total. Minor components (shunts, breakers, switches etc.) plus wiring & labor goes on top.
Nina
I formed my price list in spreadsheet form once you provided links. I did do a cost comparison for the solar panels by $ per watt and watts per square inch.
I thought that I read something about some company working on the heat problem. Hopefully this can be applied to the RV type batteries.
You are correct. I linked directly to Blue Sky in the post even tho we purchased most of the Blue Sky components from AM Solar. Minor differences, but that accounts for it. Appreciate all the work you did to put this together and share it!
Nina
Now that you guys have done all the heavy lifting, all I have to do is copy it and, if Marv’s available, install it in the Casita. 😀
Pat
How long did the process take from beginning your shadows cutouts for the roof, ordering everything, installation, and then testing the solar system out?
Ah goodness, that’s a tough one. We waffled back and forth about the BBSBU for a while, but I guess once we finally decided to go ahead and do it the whole thing only took a month all-in-all. We discussed parts for a few weeks with Marv, then everything was ordered and we travelled to see him. Once we got together it all happened really fast. Just 5 or so full days and it was done. I think you could easily do the whole thing in a few weeks if you had all your research done ahead of time.
Nina
Great job on the video guys! Very professional and informative! You have nothing to apologize for. No one would ever know it was your first! As I have said before, I now have battery envy. But, ya know the saying about the cobblers family having no shoes. I shouldn’t complain though. I can do whatever I want with the system we have.
Fantastic wrap-up of a fabulous upgrade that we know you’ll love for years to come! Can’t wait until we are next together again and can boondock in abundance with our mutual setups.
And the video format suits you guys well, or maybe that’s just me enjoying seeing your smiling faces.
Ok.. off to plan our next upgrade, can’t let you get ahead for tooooo long. 😉
I’m fully expecting to be duly outdone by the technomads. Can’t wait to geek out together and see what you have planned next
Nina
Hi Nina,
Thanks again for an awesome series! Did you order the components from Blue Sky & Amazon, then take everything to Quartzite for Marvin to install? Just trying to figure out the logistics of getting everything we need this year to benefit from the tax credit and possibly schedule installation with Marvin for Jan. 2017
Debbie.
We just let Marvin handle everything. He has all the connections (at AM Solar, Elite etc.) and gets good prices. By the way you can only take the credit in the tax year you do the actual install. So if you install in 2017, you cannot take the tax credit until you file your 2017 taxes.
Nina
Nina
Just so you know, I confess to be one of the “lurking readers” who enjoy and soak up your blogs, stories, tips and beautiful photographs without providing any regular feedback.
I tend to find authors who provide something worthwhile of my reading time and stick with them faithfully, even if it’s in the background.
But, I felt the need to break from my routine of silence to tell you how much I’ve enjoyed and appreciated your recent blogs on your solar explosion! I love to read commentary from someone like yourself who has a good understanding of not only the aesthetic aspects of a project, but the down ‘n dirty techie details. I’m an engineer by degree so the techie focus is right down my path!
I’ve enjoyed reading your logic and science-based decisions of why you did what you did and your expectations. You have an extraordinary skill of describing something very detailed without the usual look-down-your-nose attitude others seem to have. THANK YOU for that approach!
I also share your love for photography so you’ve got your work cut out for you – keeping the information-soakers like myself fulfilled!
Thanks again for your interest, effort and willingness to converse with the rest of the world about your nomadic lifestyle.
Bruce Pirtle
Thank you VERY much for the lovely words! Appreciate it a lot!
Nina
Good to know…thanks, Nina! I thought we could meet up with Marvin in Quartzite & you had mentioned he was there in Jan. I can’t thank you enough for such detail…it will save me a ton of research!! Deb
Thank you for all the upgrade information. I basically have your old system installed on my coach and will be keeping it for some time. Are you able to take any tax credits or deductions on your new installation?
Yes, we qualify for the 30% Solar Tax Credit (officially known as the Residential Energy Credit, IRS Form 5695). We’ll take it in our 2016 taxes (since that’s the year we got the installation done).
Nina
Where in the system is the safeguard that prevents excessive drawdown from the batteries? Is that a function of the CPU installed with the batteries?
Thanks.
Bruce
Yes it is. When the battery monitor sensors that the batteries are down to 20% it sends a signal to disconnect the batteries from the system.
Nina
Hi Nina & Paul, Does the warranty on your solar panels have a “mobile installation” exclusion clause”
Thanks, Mick Kent
Nope. Nina
I,m wondering about the color display unit you installed in your battery/solar upgrade. Looks like It lets you see the status of your solar system real time. I especially like the graphic display of the data. It appears to be in addition to the Blue Sky monitor and am wondering who makes it and how it ties it into your system. It looks like a really great way to see the status of your solar and batteries at any time. In your final video about the new system you demonstrated it but did not talk about the manufacturer or how it is connected into the system. Perhaps a Marvin special?
Are you talking about the LCD Screen that looks like this?
That’s just the standard EPS LCD Monitor that’s used together with the batteries. I listed it in Part II and Part III of our installation (both posts). Marv wired this from our batteries in the back of the RV to the center of the RV (where we have all our control panels).
Nina
Very, very nice installation.
I assume when you made this conversion you ditched the emergency switch so you can’t use your House system to backup the Chassis system. Personally I don’t see that being a big deal.
Don’t know if most of your noise is from the inverter, the vent fans or a combination of both. If it’s the inverter you could look at Sonex® Valueline Acoustic foam to line cabinet. If the fans check out some low noise fans. They have very special blade design that really makes them quite.
No we still have it! We kept the “battery boost” function that connects the two in case we need to boost the Chassis batteries to start the rig. However we don’t really need it anymore. We installed a Trik-L Start charger that maintains the Chassis batteries, so they are kept topped-off even when we’re parked or unplugged.
Nina
Sometimes I wish my van’s roof was the size of your coach’s. We squeezed 800W of solar panels on top of a Sprinter van. Added a 700Ah lithium battery, Victron solar charge controller, inverter and Color Controller.
We’ve written quite a bit about the choices we made (and about DIY installing a 12V and 120V electrical system in a vehicle) at our site sprintervanusa.com
We chose the Balqon battery and you probably made the right choice not using them. They are not customer-centric. The battery is great though!
We didn’t have an underwear draw to start with, so no loss there!
I’m darn impressed you squeezed that much juice onto your Sprinter van. Sweet setup! Cheers for sharing it. We have some smaller rig followers on the blog who will definitely be interested.
Nina
This was a fabulous series and I’m so appreciative of all the time and effort you put into it. You’ve saved me hours of research as I perform the requisite due diligence for a solar installation.
I’ve just ordered a 2017 40′ 5th wheel and I’ve already been in contact with Marvin regarding a solar installation once it arrives. Since I’m in Phoenix it will be easy to coordinate with his winter schedule. I was initially uncertain if I wanted to go with lithium but I’ve discovered that the only way I can receive the tax credit for the batteries is if I include them in the initial installation. That fact alone made the decision easy. I will use a lot of your ideas in my installation, but I think I’m going to locate the inverter somewhere other than the bedroom. I just retired from United Airlines where I used to fly the lithium battery equipped Boeing 787 Dreamliner to China and Australia. I suppose if I can trust the batteries while crossing the Pacific Ocean, I can trust them in my bedroom!
Thanks again for making my research so much easier!
Frank
Awesome! Sounds like a perfect plan and I think you’ve chosen a great guy to work with. Enjoy your lithium once you get it!!
Nina
Quick question for you (didn’t see this answered in the posts, but we apologize if we missed it): do your batteries also charge from the engine alternator when you are driving (or do they only charge from shore & solar)? If so… was there anything special that you needed to do to ensure the charging parameters are met?
YES the alternator can definitely charge the batteries with *one* caveat. The batteries can easily handle whatever max current the alternator can put out (no need to do anything special there), but what they can’t handle is over-charging and since the alternator has no automatic shut-off that is something you either have to regulate or watch manually.
For our system Marv just installed a manual switch (in our external battery bay) for our alternator so that we can control when/if we want to turn it on. It’s pretty simplistic and relies us on keeping an eye on the whole charging process, but it gives us another nice little (easy) way to charge the batteries for a few hours while driving if we need to. The only reason we haven’t used it yet is that our solar has been doing such a good job (on the road too) that we haven’t needed any extra charging options.
One of my blog readers actually wrote a detailed comment about how he’s implemented a pretty nifty alternator regulator in his own lithium-powered coach (see my last blog post). Highly recommend clicking back and reading that comment. It’s a pretty sweet set-up and we’ll probably end up doing something like that down the line.
Nina
Thanks, Nina! That’s what we thought! It certainly makes sense that your solar is more than capable of keeping the batteries topped up, so the engine/alternator charging is less important. We’ve been doing a lot of reading on lithium recently (yes… we’re jealous… and want it, LOL!) and have seen lithium upgrades that include a separate alternator for charging the lithium separately from the chassis batteries. One we recall had a regulator that included a control signal from the lithium BMS… so the charging could be disabled when the batteries were full. Pretty slick.
Yes that sounds like a VERY slick setup! For folks who can’t fit as many solar panels as us on the roof (which admittedly might be many) and/or those who prefer not to use a generator and/or times when solar is bad (shade/rain etc.) it’s great to have the backup to charge via alternator from the engine. Since lithium can suck up just about as much charge as you can give it, a couple hours drive can provide a nice little top-off.
Perhaps lithium will be the basis for a 2017 The RV Geeks video series? I would LOVE to see that!
Nina
Home Depot had the Grape 265 watts solar panels on sale through June 21st for $999 if one purchased 4 of them all together. This is less than $1 per watt. This totaled 1,060 watts. So unless Nina can find a link making AM Solar Panels cheaper, the Grape ones are now roughly 3 times cheaper.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Grape-Solar-265-Watt-Polycrystalline-Solar-Panel-4-Pack-GS-P60-265×4/206365811
Since Nina brought up the space the solar panels take up:
AM Solar recommendation from Nina with 1,000 watts = 163.2 inches wide for 4 across
Grape Solar 265 watts for 4 of them totaling 1, 060 watts = a tad below 130 inches wide if you can get two in width wise instead of 3 as in Nina’s motorhome.
Thanks for the price update. Solar is getting more and more affordable.
Nina
I agree with Van that it was an awesome series on solar power. I just wanted to let people know the updated pricing on the Grape solar panels for a comparison.
Van thanks for the suggestion. I came up with a link for 4 of your solar panels for $676 or so if my memory is right after I came home from the library. However, I will not do the installation work as I want it done properly and professionally installed. I will be doing some of my maintenance work on the travel trailer, but some items on the 6 month and 12 month list that I saw from Arctic Fox that I wouldn’t want to attempt so will go to a RV dealership to get those items done. After we get the last debt paid off, then I am contacting Marvin again to see what his price will be and compare to what Travel Units will cost me. Since Nina recommended him, I would prefer Marvin and help support people within the RV community. I would want some other work done by Marvin as well if everything works out.
I saw this quote somewhere on the internet when I was taking notes on RV subjects:
“The rule of thumb for solar to battery AH is (as far as I recall) in the range of 50 to 150 watts of solar per 100 AH of battery”
Then, I did battery to solar comparison:
600 AH of battery = 300 – 900 watts of solar
800 AH of battery = 400 – 1,200 watts of solar
1,000 AH of battery = 500 – 1,500 watts of solar
1,200 AH of battery = 600 – 1,800 watts of solar
However, I was still thinking that Nina’s 4 day supply of energy is best as I learned before we purchased the pop up camper as it was suppose to rain on the east coast for 10 days and had already rained 3 before we headed to Yellowstone. So I was thinking long term about having 1,000 AH – 1,200 AH or maybe even 1,400 AH provided that we can get 8 Grape 265 watts solar panels on the roof. However, the lithium batteries are pretty expensive so the batteries might have to be purchased over time. On the initial installation I had 4 batteries on my list with 8 265 watts Grape solar panels (want the same brand and type).
BTW I thought that I posted on one of Nina’s solar upgrade posts that Marvin did someone with over 2,000+ watts for their RV.
I am forever grateful for Nina doing the series on solar power as the books that I read didn’t have very much in them on the subject. I did take notes on Moeller’s solar tilting. I hadn’t done anything electrical in formula since either junior high or high school so this was a good refresher course for me. I did have a couple of electrical things done on the home such as a new GFI (yes, those can go bad in your home) and had installed two electrical outlets out front for Christmas lights before that.
Right now it is slightly above T-2+ years before going under the knife again since the surgeon said that my surgery was supposed to last 10 – 15 years. This would be just 3 months before I would have to tell TU that I would want the TT built if after the full 15 years. So RV full timing could depend on my health and when my surgery takes place. Plus I still have to hope that my wife will allow me to do this while she can take her international vacations once a year and come back to me after her trips. Plus it has to make financial sense as I don’t want to get into financial difficulties anymore. Back at the library again so the granddaughter can check out 6 DVDs to watch today.
Funny when I tried to get the link to Van’s solar panels that I saw online, I couldn’t find my price link again. Anyways I found a new solar power link for me and no company was mentioned on here except Grape, which wasn’t recommended since they haven’t been around long enough for the article.
My wife and I went to a fireworks show. One of the vendors had a Honda 6500 watt generator and was very loud (my wife and I were pretty far from him). I asked him to move his vehicle to act as a sound barrier only he didn’t fully cover the generator when he moved his vehicle so we still got the noise. So I moved my vehicle to park parallel with the road and have another sound barrier. This reduced the noise a lot, but didn’t remove all of it. This enabled us to listen to the band playing at the event. Anyway this brings up a question which is doesn’t the generator companies produced a gadget that reduces the noise that come from their products?
Hi Nina,
This a late addition to an ‘old post’ but I hope it will give extra info/food-for-thought for beginners and those teetering on the brink of having Solar. I made a surprising discovery from experimentation, on the subject of partial-shade on solar panels. We have 4 solar panels about 5ft x 2ft on our 5th wheel, and all connected ‘in parallel’ (so, 4x8A = 32A @ 17v). I was considering adding 2 more panels, and I know it would be more practical to connect them ‘in series pairs’ (daisy-chained, like batteries in a flashlight), to reduce wiring and also total current through the thick wires to the solar controller. I figured I’d rewire to have 2, or 3, pairs of series-connected panels – so double the voltage, which the solar controller handles automatically, while halving the total current.
– BUT – when I experimentally connected 2 in series on a sunny day (others disconnected!), but then shaded just a small, shoe-box-size area of only one panel, the total current running through BOTH panels, dropped from 8A to only 3A! (For maths nerds, that’s a 62% output drop for only 2.5% shaded area!!). I know you’ve mentioned before the adverse effects of partial shade, but I had no idea such a little area of shade on one panel would so much affect any others connected in series with it! So my point is, despite the increased total current rating and cables needed, I think I’ll stick with all my panels being connected in parallel – so then if any one panel gets partially shaded, at least the others continue to make their full contribution without suffering! Hope this helps someone. Cheers.
Great example of the shade issue! It’s especially a problem when panels are wired in series (less so when the panels are wired in parallel). Thanks much for sharing your story.
Nina
Thought we had posted previously but could not find it on this thread.
We have two RVs with solar/LFP systems
34′ 5th wheel: 1410 W of panels which transmit energy to 45 amp MPPT controller at 90 V, and then to 9.5 kW-hr LFP at 48 V (nominal). Power goes to outlets via 4.5 kW PSWI and 500 W Mean Well 48 V to 12 V converter. Have only used line power once in two years and that was when we left rig at an RV park for 5 days. We use this rig for US and western Canada. Equivalent lead-acid battery bank would be about 800 pounds and would be over front bay, kingpin, and rear axle limits. We are full timers and have 4.5 years on this system.
19′ Roadtrek: 415 W of panels which transmit energy to two controllers to 4.5 kW-hr LFP at 12 V (nominal). Power goes to outlets via 2.5 kW PSWI and standard 12 V.We got this rig for 14 weeks in Labrador and Newfoundland – and to visit places in Mexico you could not get a 5th wheel in – and if you did, you probably could not get out. San Cristobal de las Casas and Pátzcuaro being quite notable in this respect. Equivalent lead-acid battery suite would be 400 pounds heavier which would be more than rear axle limits. We have 1.5 years with this system. Plugged in while on beach in Yucatan. Since there is “dirty” electrical power both in US and Mexico, we only use a 15 amp (Roadtrek has an organic 30 amp – but we generally have to “stretch) and the power goes through battery charger to batteries. The same is true for the 5th wheel.
We never leave propane on while traveling. It is potentially dangerous and fridge is easily cooled using the solar. Solar during day, propane at night
Reed and Elaine
Hi guys – thank you for the FANTASTIC lithium write-up! I’m about to do the same upgrade. But Elite has notified me that their EMS is not designed for Battery banks larger them 500Ah. Have you found it easy or difficult to use their EMS with your 600Ah bank? What’s your workaround?
Thank you again – hope to meet you on the road sometime soon 🙂
Mark
Did you ever publish your blue seas settings for charging?
No I did not (and sorry for the late reply). We set it for bulk charge at 14V, float at 13.4V. We initially had it set for a slightly higher bulk (either 14.1 or 14.2, I can’t quite recall), but decided to dial it back a tad. These settings have worked well for us.
Nina
Great information. Thank you. I am considering making a blog on a side topic. Winter use of RV/Camper. Powder chasing and finding scenic places to camp not too far away from the ski area. Question, do you make real money on the advertising links? Let’s say “real money” is over $20,000 per year. Thanks so much.
Regarding your money question. Through Google ads….no, definitely not. They pay very, very little. Through affiliate links….it’s possible depending on the company and terms. I don’t do a lot of affiliates (I’m particularly picky, and only work with folks I actually trust & use myself), but there are good arrangements out there if you have enough blog traffic & hussle.
Nina
For Ralph and others – You might like this thread: (http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/forums/showthread.php?p=332786#post332786). I started it for my fellow Bluebird friends. You will see that I’m forecasting $9k with an 800 Ah pack and a Magnum Mini-Mag panel (which should consolidate & clean the install up a bit). That includes the misc items with “free” installation of course ;). Significant savings is obtained using BIG discounted house panels from SunElec.com and the single Magnum PT100, which I hope will seamlessly “talk” to the rest of the Magnum system. Biggest savings though is in the cost of the panels – 1,425 watts for less than $1,000! Though the larger 72 cell panels can produce u to a whopping 330 watts each (over 1,600 watts total!), I’ll likely select the shorter ones for aesthetic reasons AND to keep Nina/Paul in the geek lead a bit longer 😉
Thanks again Nina for the awesome series. Your timing was impeccable! 🙂
Looks like the start of a fun system. Enjoy the upgrade!
Nina
Van, courious about 2 things in your design:
1) Great price on the Sunvia OPT285-S35 Mono panels. Where are you buying them?
2) I am designing a large system for my toy hauler. All Magnum. Studied the Magnum Energy MMP250 and could not figure out why I would add it to my system. Guesssing you already have your AC loads subpaneled and you are bringing this unit in to make the install a bit cleaner, but would appreciate your opine on the reasoning.
This has been a very valuable blog by all of you for me, and I am sure many others. Thank you.
Jon
1) Sunelec.com – US warehouses in FL & AZ. At the time of this post those panels are listed on their site for $194 each in grade B. Also, iMarineUSA.com has excellent prices on most Magnum products.
2) Bingo – the Magnum panel promises to bring each separate part of the system together into a highly functional yet compact stack. This should make wiring easier (I hope 🙂 ). Closet mounting of it all will be my challenge and that panel should help. Not everyone has a sacrificial underwear drawer 😉
We bought our hybrid inverter and panel from iMarine last year. Always been happy with their price and service.
Nina